Joker: Folie a Deux (2024) Spoiler Discussion

Hello boys and girls and welcome to Movie

Goodness where we examine life through cinema here on the KB Radio Network.

I am your host Kevin Reed and this episode of Movie Goodness is selfishly about me.

And when I say about me,

I'm trying to talk to myself here.

I'm asking myself a question and normally we'll discuss a topic that affects everybody.

discuss a movie that relates to that.

But this episode is a little different because

I'm trying to figure something out.

I'm trying to,

I guess,

do some soul searching,

if you will.

And it's for the most trivial thing ever,

because

I'm trying to figure out why I like

Joker folio do.

Whereas everybody else,

well,

I'll say 95% of the people who have seen that film feel completely different.

I mean,

you either hot or cold when it comes to Jokey Folio Duke.

There's no in-between.

There's no,

oh,

it was all right.

Oh,

it's watchable.

You either liked it or you hated it.

And the people who liked it,

I can't find.

It feels like I'm not.

only person on earth that actually liked the movie and so i i did a a review of the film at saw it last week when it opened up and it was non-spoiler didn't really get into spoilers but

at this point with people discussing it saying why they hated it and whatnot of course i always considered doing a spoiler review of it because i wanted to dive deeper into the review and

uh talk about the things that i liked and talk about the things that i dislike because there are things that i disliked about the film it just wasn't to the level of vitriol that is online and that is in these uh articles by critics and fans alike is like my god what did this movie do was i watching the same movie i'm

trying to figure out what went wrong and so uh the film is a flop

at least as it is right now it it's not gonna make his money back i think this film was made for 200 million dollars that was the production budget of this film whereas the first film joker which came out in 2019 i think was only made for like 50 and

it grossed a billion dollars which is why we got this sequel to the film and this go around they gambled hard and honestly i don't know where the 200 out 200 million dollars went

in the production,

it's a beautiful production,

it's shot beautifully,

the costume designs,

and all this here,

but there's no action sequences,

there's nothing,

you know what I'm saying,

like big stars,

I mean,

Joaquin Phoenix is a star,

but not to that level to where you've got to pay him that much,

you know,

Lady Gaga is a star,

but I don't think she got 50 million dollars to do this movie,

I'd be wrong,

but this is...

a flop i think it only made 40 million dollars opening weekend which was well below the projections for this film uh but today today what we're gonna do we're gonna go through the spoiler review

of this film and we're gonna break it down break it down down down and because i've seen it twice now and i pretty much feel the same exact weight

that i did the first time i mean it was so bad i had to watch it a second time and and try to you know when you see a movie sometimes and the first time you see like man that movie was good it got off man that was one of the best movies ever and then you watch it again you're like man what was i looking at well this movie is not that good you know it did happen to me a few times but

this go around no it it didn't happen i felt the same that i

felt the first time I watched so we're gonna have the discussion and I'm gonna go over you know periodically during the discussion what people are saying about certain things that we're discussing during this uh breakdown of the film and

my thoughts on why they feel the way they feel about this

And I'll give you my final thoughts on why I feel the way I feel about this film.

But this film,

Fully Ado,

is directed by Todd Phillips,

who directed the first film.

Todd Phillips has a comedy background.

Todd Phillips directed

Road Trip.

I think that was his first film back in 2000,

maybe 2001.

But it was a funny film.

I actually enjoyed it.

he did old school,

old school,

hilarious,

one of those,

uh,

cult classics,

if you will,

uh,

school for scoundrels,

which was funny,

hangover one,

two,

and three,

you know,

love those films,

well,

I love,

well,

I love the first one,

like the second one,

the third one,

okay,

but,

uh,

he's directed some really good comedies,

you know,

and when he first did,

joker you know from 2019 all right that'll work because you know with his comedy background and what whatnot this ought to be an interesting take on that character well it was he went completely dark i mean it was nothing funny about it it was funny it

was funny parts in it but it was disturbing funny and so uh that film was a deep dive into you

mental health that's why i love the first joker so much it really shined a light on the mental health issue not so much those who are dealing with this but how it's treated how people treat them who

are going through with it and uh what drove arthur fleck to ultimately become the quote-unquote joker in that film it was a beautifully made film close to perfect

very close to perfect enjoyed it inside and out the score the cinematography the acting joaquin phoenix won uh best actor at that year's academy awards where well deserved and you

know i've seen that movie multiple times and i enjoyed it each and every time i watched it um this film this go around jokey folio folio do is a jukebox musical

as well as a psychological thriller.

And that was the new element that they added to this film and that they kind of promoted when they announced the sequel.

And

I was a little taken aback by that.

I was a little like,

why?

Do you know why?

Why mess up a masterpiece in some sorts by doing a musical?

How is that even going to work,

you know?

And...

maybe a couple of days or a week or so or it could be months after i don't know but uh time time blends together these days but they announced lady gaga was cast as harley quinn okay now

you have my now you have my attention now now i'm fully on board we're doing a musical with lady gaga as harley quinn who i would have i would have watched the movie with her as harley without the musical element i think

Lady Gaga is an awesome performance and a performer,

I should say.

And her as this character,

it fits.

I automatically got excited.

I'm like,

man,

that fits perfectly in this universe,

in this world that Todd Phillips has created here.

So I was super,

super excited.

This film is loosely based on

DC Comics character,

the Joker.

uh harley quinn in this film in uh folia dual you have harvey denton this film uh in a small role i guess you could say small role it's not a co-star

or nothing like that but yeah so you have gotham city as one of the main characters the city itself it so it is set in this world and i just want to say this to start off

I think a lot of people were upset but I don't think it I actually know this for a fact because

I've watched some reviews of people who were mad at this movie because it wasn't comics accurate and my mind was blown by that and I mean super super mad oh

man that's not the joker from the comics well the first film wasn't the joker from the comics

This had nothing to do with DC.

I know in the first film,

of course,

yes.

Bruce Wayne appears in that film.

He was a little kid in it.

He was a little baby,

five or six years old in that movie.

Whatever.

You know,

you had Thomas Wayne.

You had

Gotham City and all this other good stuff.

Yeah.

All right,

cool.

It was set in the D.C.

This is loose.

And I mean loosely based on D.C.

comics.

I'm talking the first film.

So it wasn't me personally.

was not expecting batman to show up in this movie i wasn't expecting alfred to show up in this movie i wasn't expecting uh dick grayson or jason todd to show up in this movie it's it's

a joker film you know it is what it is and so i don't understand why people were mad that this was not accurate to the comic no it's not it if that's your beef you

you're 100% right it's not accurate it is nothing in the comics that is reflected in this film or should i well yeah well you know with certain characters or whatever uh things that happen we'll get to it but it's like that's

not it's not based on any comic at all other than names and the setting that's it that's it other than that this is a standalone film

in every sense of the word joaquin phoenix returns as arthur flagg aka joker uh reprising his role his oscar-winning role i should say lady gaga as i mentioned before was cast as uh

lee quinzel lee quinzel keep that name in mind uh zazie beats returns from the first film lee gill returns from the first film uh new to this sequel

You have Brandon Gleeson,

Catherine Keener,

Steve Coogan,

and Harry

Laughty, who portrays Harvey Dent,

the district attorney who is prosecuting

Arthur Fleck for his crimes in the first film.

And so this is how I'm going to do this spoiler discussion.

We're going to break it down like I break down every other review.

But we're going to break it down a little more.

We're going to start with the performances.

All of the performers.

Touching on some plot points.

But

I'm going to save that until we get to the story element of it.

And then we're going to go through the story.

You know,

in all three acts.

After which we'll talk about the production.

And then we'll get into our discussion on why I think there's so much vitriol for this.

film and why i feel differently than the masses in this film uh let's start with the performances let's start with our star joaquin phoenix who reprises his role as alter fleck this mentally ill uh criminal who

uh who we last left in the first film he had got arrested for killing five people which is actually six and he

he was locked up in Arkham and he had killed the therapist,

I believe at the very end of that movie,

because when he walked out the therapist's office in

Arkham, he had the bloody footprints and that's how the film went off.

And so we pick up in this film,

Arthur Fleck locked up in Arkham,

uh,

what Joaquin Phoenix did to his body in this film.

uh just like he did in the first one i mean jesus man i feel so bad for him it was hard to look at him and that's the whole point you know he's supposed to look like this uh just malnutritioned just

thing you know just this i don't know i don't even know how to describe him he's almost skeleton like uh in the way he got his body to look that way uh i was kind of worried but then i saw

In an interview,

they were doing a press junket and it looked like he put the weight back on.

Thank God,

because he looked horrible in this movie.

But his performance,

once again,

stellar.

There's no way you can have a problem with

Joaquin Phoenix's performance.

Even those who are mad at the film,

they still praised his performance.

It wasn't him.

He did...

I mean,

he went above and beyond for what they gave him in this movie.

And so my hat's off to Joaquin Phoenix.

a lot of people are upset with the film by the way this character is in this movie as opposed to the way he was at the end of the first film he kind of in the first film he accepted being

a joke but by the end of this film he doesn't you know and is that a betrayal of the character if you look at it that way yeah you

If you if let me put it like this and I should have started it off like if you went into this film expecting a brutal,

just homicidal killing machine,

you're going to get your feelings hurt.

Do you know it?

And for some strange reason,

I never thought this movie was going to be that.

So none of that caught me off guard that this character was not this just murderous,

uh,

vow,

disgusting human being that we left at the end of the first film,

because things are different.

Matter of fact,

his character,

Arthur Fleck says that in the film,

he says that when he's talking to,

uh,

Steve Coogan's character in the film,

when they're doing that,

uh,

interview thing inside of.

Arkham he tells him like things are different that's what we should be talking about it's different and because his mindset is different you know he's not he's not the same person he's on medication you know they're keeping him sedated in

this uh uh asylum well it's a state hospital but we know it's an asylum in the comments but you get the you get the point so no you're not going to get that character that character they killed that character

you know they basically killed that character they being the ones at arkham you know they have subdued that character and put this love interest into the uh into the film into his world and

that's where his focus shifted it wasn't about being seen or anything like that all the only thing he wants to be seen by or the only person he wants to be seen by is lee quinzel and so that's that

he's gonna have a different objective than he had in the first film and that's that was basically this character's uh journey in this film lady gaga as harleen lee quinzel or

what we know her as harley quinn in the comics um this is not the harley quinn from batman the other man animated this is not the harley quinn

that Margot Robbie is known for playing in the Suicide Squad and Birds of Prey.

No,

this isn't the Harley Quinn from the animated show on Max.

This is a completely different character.

Completely different.

Other than the fact that this is a girl or woman,

I should say,

that is in love with Joker.

That's it.

That's the only similarities between Harley Quinn.

and lee quinzel that's that's the only similarities that these characters have uh we do find out later in the film that she has a uh psychology degree and all this here so yeah you can link that with it too but

um as far as lady gaga's performance oh i loved it oh my god i loved it uh the only problem i had with the lady gaga of it all it wasn't enough of uh and

To say that this was a jukebox musical wasn't used that often.

Wasn't used a lot as far as the musical element of it.

Yeah,

no,

I take that back.

It is a there is a good portion of music in this film and she does sing a lot of it.

But this isn't your typical musical,

you know,

and I guess that's a good segue into the musical element of it,

which I should have talked about earlier as well.

Yes,

this is a jukebox musical.

Music is used in this film as a doorway or a pathway into the minds of these two throwed off individuals.

And I thought that was a unique and interesting path to take.

Just like in the first film where dancing,

when Joker danced,

when Arthur Fleck danced,

that was his kind of release.

That was his coming out.

as the joker you know and this film it was the scene it was that was the connection

with him in Harley.

And

I thought that was an excellent,

excellent idea.

But was it executed right or properly or effectively?

I would say not 100%.

It was a great idea,

but it wasn't done great.

Once again,

reading the reviews.

Seeing people mad about the musical element.

Thought it was overdone.

I don't think it was overdone.

Me personally,

I thought it should have been more of it.

You know,

if we're going to go musical,

let's go musical.

And I know a lot of people are mad because they have musical elements in it.

Look,

by no stretch of the imagination,

is this Chicago?

Or is this

Moulin Rouge or something like that?

This is not that.

Music is used.

sparingly sparingly in my opinion but i'm i'm reading reviews where it was like oh it was too much music in it what it wasn't that it really wasn't that much i i maybe i was expecting more and

that's why i feel the way i feel but like i said i've seen it twice and going into it the second time and i know when the musical cues are coming but it's still it still didn't feel like a lot

in my opinion um my issue with the music like i said before i don't know if it was executed right at parts some scenes it worked perfectly and some in other scenes not so much not

so much but back to the lady gaga of it all lady gaga did a great job i think she did a great job just like uh joaquin phoenix she did great with what was given to her um

I don't think it was a lot that she had to work with,

to be honest with you.

She's not in it as much as I thought.

I thought this was going to be more of a duel type thing,

you know,

like a yin and yang type thing.

But she doesn't have a lot of screen time,

at least not as much as

I was expecting to see.

But she was in it a good bit.

The parts that she was in,

I think she went toe to toe with Joaquin Phoenix.

this film and you can argue in some scenes acted circles around Joaquin Phoenix now mind you this is an Academy Award award-winning actor not just any Academy Award winning actor he won the Academy Award for playing this character it's

so to say that she went toe-to-toe with him and you know

At the very least in her worst moments in this film work was on the level with Joaquin

Every other time

I think she she was in control of this film a hundred percent in control of every scene that she was in a hundred percent of the character being as manipulative as she is and

You can argue that she was more diabolical than Arthur

Even though she's not a killer per se,

she didn't kill anybody in here.

But other than Arthur,

his heart,

I mean,

ripped his heart out at the end.

But

I'm saying that figuratively.

But,

yeah,

it was an awesome performance by her.

I think one of the best.

I'll put that up there.

I'll put this up there with

Star is Born,

which is,

I think she was nominated for that film.

And rightfully so.

uh do i see a nomination for her in this no not with all this backlash i don't see any awards coming for this film but uh they should acknowledge them in some type of way those were some awesome performances speaking of awesome performances and spoiler alert on

a spoiler discussion all of the performances was great there wasn't a bad performance in this film but there are some that stand out more than others uh one you

in particular you have brandon gleason and you know saying that name and a great performance by him is like saying water is wet i i get all that i mean brandon gleason is amazing and i would say close to everything he's in i love brandon gleason uh

he plays a security guard at arkham and he's abusive towards arthur and you know but his character is so

He's brutal in the scenes that he don't even touch on,

you know,

he's just brutal mentally,

you know,

he's like a

mental abuse,

but it do get physical at times as well,

which,

uh,

those scenes are pretty disturbing in their own right.

Uh,

but,

uh,

Brandon Gleason's performance top notch,

man.

I actually,

I wanted to see more of him.

I really did.

I wanted to see more of him.

Um,

but the biggest standout to me,

like Steve Coogan,

he does a good job in the scene that he's in.

I've never seen a performance,

uh,

from him.

like this you know this kind of even kill uh tv reporter uh you know because steve coogan is a comedic actor and whatnot so you know you're thinking at any point he was gonna crack a joke or something but no this

is the most serious i've seen steve coogan now i'm pretty sure he's played serious roles before but this is the first one i took notice of i was like man it's steve coogan go ahead on but the big standout to me you

is a character from the first film who returned for this film and that is uh lee gill who plays gary puddles and he was in one scene and this was my favorite scene in the movie because

that scene oh my god i'm about to cry now that scene had me about to just break down man i mean it was oh my god he was talking about emotions

I can't put into words the level of emotion I felt from that performance,

you know,

because he's a little guy.

And if y'all remember from the first film,

he was the one guy who didn't pick on Arthur.

The one guy.

And you really don't think about it until it's mentioned in this film,

in this scene in particular.

And for Arthur.

to tell him like yeah that's why that's why i spared your life that's why i didn't hurt you you know you you was my friend you know you didn't you didn't pick on me and that's when gary puddles said you know that's why you was my friend you was the only one that was nice to me you

know you were the only one that was nice to me and you know at this point arthur fleck had went full joker in the courtroom and he's trying to cross-examine him uh

uh,

Gary and,

you know,

puddles,

is that your real name?

You know,

even,

uh,

cracking jokes about that.

And he's like,

no,

that's my name.

And really it was just a,

it tore him up.

And that's what ultimately broke down the wall between author and

Joker.

That is,

that's where,

uh,

author came out in like a light switch was flicked.

right there.

And the way they played that scene,

the way they acted that scene,

oh my God,

it was beautiful.

It was beautiful.

I mean,

to all of you who hated this movie,

who couldn't stand this movie,

you got to sit back and say that scene,

that scene was top notch.

That was an A plus scene.

It was,

it was,

it was an A plus scene.

Moving on to the story elements of this film.

I'm going to try to break down storylines.

I'm not going to go from beginning to end and basically recite the screenplay to you,

but we're going to go storylines throughout.

And what I felt about the storylines,

the throughlines,

the subplots,

and all that there,

bit by bit.

So let's start with the opening.

let's do the opening by itself this film starts with an animated sequence and i thought that was interesting i'm like okay okay where are we going with this and it pretty much recaps the end of the first joker and it's done in an animation style and this is where the

introduction of a second personality a dual personality is introduced where uh arctofleck is you

fighting his shadow the shadow is what took over which is basically the joker took over and he's the one that actually murdered uh robert de niro on live tv and so you have that and

then arthur fleck wakes up it was all a dream of course but it was it was a cool scene but you know once you see the movie and you realize like wait that was

they basically summed up the movie in that animated scene that was the whole movie in that scene

and i was like bad uh it didn't really dawn on me till the second time i watched because the thing about it is when joker is walking past this theater he see these posters of old musicals and those are real musicals those actual films that came out uh you

know decades ago but uh the little easter egg of it all is the music that they sing

in this film comes from those films that you see in that little dream sequence so everything was connected in there and so uh we move on to arthur fleck and ark him being in arkham now

first and foremost let me say this the film is basically a recap of the first film and now you

If this is the reason,

like I said,

I'm trying to search for reasons why people didn't like this movie.

If this is the reason why people don't like this film,

I can kind of understand that because it was basically a two and a half hour recap of the first film.

It was,

I mean,

nothing happened.

There was no action.

There was no killing from Arthur.

uh he didn't kill anybody in this movie he daydreamed about it but he didn't actually kill anybody in this film but it's it's basically a recap him being in arkham did drag a bit and

that i will openly admit it did drag in arkham it was it was a lot that they could have trimmed out in this film and arkham was it

You know,

there were some interesting things that took place in there.

You know,

his living conditions.

Yes,

we need to see all that.

The other little sub characters that he interacts with.

That's cool to him in the guards.

That's cool.

But one character we don't get introduced to at all.

We see him floating around in the background,

but it's only for a couple of scenes.

And then at the end of this film,

he pops up and he's the one who kills Arthur Fleck.

And now I thought the first time I watched it,

I actually thought it was the other guy,

the one that was always hanging around Arthur,

but he got killed.

I don't know why my mind got mixed up,

but the guards killed him.

And so it wasn't that guy.

That was another guy.

And so they didn't introduce him.

The dude just kind of like.

out of nowhere you know we don't know what reason that he killed Arthur other than the fact that Arthur renounced the Joker persona and that made a lot of people mad and all this other good stuff but yeah I mean it was it was kind of out of nowhere and then the

other element at least for me that I didn't like about the Arkham the Arkham element was

Arthur Fleck

is locked up he's going to trial for killing five people but we all know is actually sick for killing five people uh and they allow him to go to this scene that's

in the minimum security wing of ark you know this is one of the most deadly people in gotham why why are we just letting him willy-nilly and you

it was like that part was like so confusing i know the reason why story wise you know screenplay wise because you need author and uh lee to meet up you need them to get together and this was where they got together all right i get that but common

sense wise it made none it made zero sense

He's going to this singing class.

They're watching movies together and all this other stuff with no real supervision.

You know,

no restraints or nothing on him.

He had restraints the first time,

but as they kept going,

he had zero restraints on him.

I mean,

like,

this is a serial killer.

I mean,

I don't get it.

I don't get why it was done in that way.

It could have been done differently as far as the...

Lee Quinzel character in Art DeFleck meeting up.

They could have still used the Harley Quinn element of it or the Harleen Quinzel element of it as her being a psychiatrist.

a psychiatrist and arthur fleck has to go see her uh as he prepares for the trial and whatnot and it could have been done that way but at least that's me if i was writing and directing this film but i

guess that's why i'm sitting here just talking about it but that would have been a way at least a better way in my mind for them to meet up uh them going to this class thing it didn't make sense and it drugged

this drug on for a while and that element of it no i didn't like that quite honestly i did not like that but i accepted it for what it was um moving on to the trial the

trial is the big part another big part of this film and it once again is just a recap that is the whole trial is just recapping what happened in the first film

story element wise did we need to see it no do we did we need to keep hearing about it no now we did hear some new elements to arthur flex life his background that we didn't explore in the first film they

touched in on it but they didn't really go in depth with it uh the scene was zazie beats who also returned for this film uh if you remember she is uh she played the character that ought to

Fleck had fantasized about that he thought he was having an actual relationship with come to find out he was imagining the whole thing she testifies at the trial once again another scene that kind of broke me uh not so not as much as the puddle scene but

this did break me as far as Arthur Fleck's character when um uh Zazie Beetz character is

talking to the lawyer in the courtroom,

I should say,

and she's describing or recounting a conversation she had with Arthur's mother and how Arthur's mother lied to her and told,

or lied to Arthur and told him that,

you know,

God put him here to make people laugh and she was laughing at him,

you know,

like a joke,

you know,

like she looked at him like,

you know,

like...

what he was nothing you know and that was heartbreaking and for arthur to sit there and he goes drifts into his daydream and uh has this uh musical number in his head as as zazzy

beats is describing this oh my god it was it was torture i felt so bad and that brings me to another point of what why people may be upset with this film this film you

kind of i don't know if this was the intentions or not but this film kind of made arthur fleck a sympathetic character uh we left him in the last film he's

a cold-blooded killer a stone cold killer um man smothered his mother you know what i'm saying he shot a man on live tv blew his head uh

he killed the people in the subway and what i mean he's a cold-blooded killer and in this film this was kind of a way to make him sympathetic uh at least that's a way you can look at it i didn't see it that way but i

can see where people would see it that way you know what i'm saying i i see where you can look at this like oh man they're trying to make him they're trying to make him the hero and whatnot

I don't see that.

I really don't.

But if you really go back and look at the first film,

it's the same elements there.

They really didn't make him a villain.

They made him more of just a sick man.

He's a sick man mentally.

And,

you know,

that's not to celebrate him or cheer him on like the people of Gotham were,

but at least some of the citizens of Gotham.

somewhere,

but,

uh,

it's just to showcase it.

And I,

I didn't see it as,

uh,

trying to redeem his character in any way,

but you know,

it is what it is.

Uh,

Harvey Dent,

who plays the district attorney,

uh,

well is the district attorney.

He,

uh,

I think old boy did a pretty decent job as Harvey Dent.

Um,

I haven't seen him in,

uh,

I think he is in other things,

of course.

It isn't his first movie,

but I haven't seen him in anything else.

I think he did an excellent job.

The scene at the end of the trial where the trial blows up,

a car bomb outside blows the hole in it,

and everybody in the courtroom is messed up and,

you know,

devastated by what just happened.

And then we see that little Easter egg with Harvey Denton,

half of his face is messed up.

I'm like,

okay,

that's cool.

It's cool,

but at the same time,

it was...

kind of unnecessary because if we're gonna stand alone do a standalone film do a standalone film don't don't tease us with these batman villains you know it's not like you're gonna have a part three and harvey dent is gonna be two-faced now that nah uh that wouldn't make sense but it's uh it

was it was cool to see you know as fan service but this film you know you kind of

how can i put it you kind of sully in your film that way you know because this is a different film and it feel like you're trying to play in a sandbox that that you don't have to play in you

know there's no need for that just make your own movie you know you didn't have to add those elements you know you have enough batman elements in this film you didn't have to add that you know you could add harvey dent you

I would have been just fine without messing up the side of his face.

It just made,

me personally,

it just made me think of,

okay,

Batman's coming soon.

You know?

And I know in my head,

it's not going to happen.

You know,

this is not that type of film.

This is not that universe where you're going to see Bruce Wayne dressed up as a bat,

swooping in and beating up the Joker.

It's not going to happen.

So,

when you do stuff like that,

it makes you think about that.

You know?

I think that was a misfire,

no pun intended.

Now we move on to this ending.

And the ending did make me mad,

and not for the reasons you may think.

Everybody knows the ending.

Joker gets stabbed by that inmate that we were talking about that came out of nowhere,

but he is murdered.

And that inmate...

Uh...

cuts a smile in his face once again making a nod to another joker uh is dumb that was that was dumb you know why because that's heath ledger's god rest his soul uh

he that was his joker so what do you implicate that that was heath ledger's joker that's how he got the scars uh that made no sense but uh i didn't have a problem with them killing arthur flex

I get it.

Just didn't like how they killed Arthur.

It would have been more poetic had it been

Harley Quinn or Lee Quinzel to put it better.

That's who this is.

It would have made more sense that way.

But that's not what they did.

And this film had three endings.

It felt like it was going to end three different times.

And.

It made you look at your watch.

It really did.

It was like,

okay,

so now we about to,

okay,

so they about to kill him.

Nope.

Then it was another scene came and it looked like,

oh,

this is where they're going to,

nope.

And then the end happened and you're like,

okay.

It was just unnecessary.

It just drug at the end.

It just did.

They could have picked either one of those three and just ran with the one and it would have been.

10 times better in my eyes i would have accepted the ending that we got had they not did the first two little false finishes and i and those those finishes are i don't know why i'm hiding i'm acting like it's a

non-spoiler but when he leaves the when he leaves or escapes out the courtroom and some of his uh joker followers help him leave and he runs off and he goes up the

famous stairs and harley quinn is sitting at the top of the stairs and harley quinn had told him that she she was pregnant and whatnot and this that and the third uh well i'll get to that i'll get to that when i break down the relationship thing that's next but

the it the end i'm thinking she's gonna kill him right there you know because at that point she was disgusted hey but that didn't happen she just walked away

the scene where the guards were about to murder him in the shower or whatever.

thought that was the end nope that didn't happen actually that scene happened before the uh car bomb and all that there and so you had that then you had uh uh and then the actual ending with the stabbing yeah

it was kind of it didn't land it didn't land because it just felt like okay that's it

That's how the ending was.

It was like,

oh,

that's it?

You know,

we went through this long journey with this character.

Two movies,

and that was that.

Like I said,

I didn't have a problem with the result that he died at the end because that's ultimately what he deserved.

But it just wasn't executed right,

in my humble opinion.

that that's that's the ending we got but i said in my non-spoiler review i did not like the end did not like the ending at all and that didn't change on the second quarter actually i hated it worse um the second time i watched it um

the love affair i would say the best for last the love affair between arthur fleck and lee quinzel this was done fairly well like i said

there was a misfire there with the musical element but as far as the performances between uh joaquin phoenix and lady gaga and the chemistry between the two of them it

was great it was great this was sold it this this is what you were supposed to go to the film to go see and that was my sole focus you know once again

I think a lot of people were expecting one thing and got another and that's why they're mad.

I've been there before so I understand.

I understand why you feel that way but

I did not go into this movie like that.

I wanted to see the dynamic between

Arthur Fleck and Harley Quinn and that's that's what I went in to see and that's what I got and

I thought it was done great.

Yeah,

there were some scenes that didn't quite make sense to me.

I still question this film at the end.

It wouldn't shock me if it came out later on that Todd Phillips pulled a wallah.

If this film is not what we think it is.

Because there are scenes where

Harley Quinn is,

you know,

off the flag.

He wakes up.

He's in solid.

solitary confinement now he wakes up and harley quinn is sitting in there oh i i let the guards let me in and whatever in solitary confinement with a serial killer you

know it's stuff like that to make you question either this is really stupid or there's something deeper there or this is a figment

of Alterflex imagination that the whole Harley Quinn aspect of this film is a fantasy.

None of it was real because when you really sit down and think about it,

like I said,

seen the movie twice,

when you really look at the film,

Harley Quinn really doesn't interact with no other character in this film.

only person she speaks to is arthur fleck and that's that's it nobody else really notices her other than the lawyer who talks about and all she did was give a little background on

who harley quinn is and that's it but you never see them together you never see them talk to one another you never see her talk to anybody else but arthur fleck and so you

My theory,

my theory,

she's not even real.

That's my,

that's my theory.

Could be wrong,

but nine times out of 10,

I am.

But it's something to think about it.

I mean,

we dealing with an unstable human being here.

So all,

all chips on the table.

We don't know what's real,

what's not,

what's fantasy,

what's,

what's reality.

When we come to the world of off the play.

But that's my theory.

but because she shows up in areas that's that's the real telltale sign she shows up in areas that

she should not be in,

and she just waltzes in like it ain't nothing,

you know,

just something to think,

just something to think about,

now,

does that make the movie better,

no,

it don't,

does it make it worse,

no,

it don't,

I just think it's very interesting,

but it's very,

it's very ambiguous,

you know,

it wouldn't shock me if Todd Phillips would come out and say that's what happened.

you know it'll probably be years from now or uh lady gaga or joaquin phoenix will come out and say it uh like yeah that was what it was all in his head it was all in his head and i would not be shocked but

i will accept uh kevin you were right i will take those i will take those but anyway that's just my theory on that overall i enjoyed the film

uh my my feelings on the film hasn't changed can see the flaws i've stated my flaws with the film and they're valid everybody's uh great with the film is valid i'm

not excusing it i actually understand it and we actually share some of those dislikes i get it but there are so much so much

good that outweigh the bad here that i can't give this a failing great i i gotta say that this is a really good film and it is a really good film it is well made technically well made uh

ty phillips uh comparable i mean solid direction here not as good as the first effort with the first joker but it's good you know it you

it is directed well uh the tone here is is pretty good really dark really moody uh the atmosphere is just disturbing as i don't know what man very disturbing oh speaking of disturbing there's one other element i did want to talk about and

that was gotham city gotham city when we left it at the end of joker the first film it you know the people were going crazy you know the the

these jokerites they were going crazy we really didn't explore that in this film that was another thing that i was kind of upset like what are the effects of this renaissance from these

joker lovers and none of that was doving into and you know i think they could have touched in that on that a little more if we're going to sit here for two hours two and a half hours uh you

you had plenty of time you could have cut some of that arkham sequence and you know looked in the people of gotham and seeing how that you know how they've been affected for the past two years i believe um that

that that this is set after the first film and so it you know there were some things there they could have touched on and they didn't but and that was one of them i wish they would have uh but anyways yeah the the uh atmosphere

was great uh the cinematography once again oh my god man this was cinema they had some shots in this film that you could have paused screenshot it and put it in a frame and hung it on your wall there was some beautiful shots very beautiful cinematography in this film you know the epic shot the

money shot with the smiley face on the glass and joaquin phoenix leaning up lining up perfectly with that smile

oh man that was i mean beautiful do you know beautiful um yeah the music as i said before the music i think they were great choices music wise uh the execution on some of them not so much but i i did like the musical selection the score on the other hand now this is a score that

was done by uh i can't pronounce her name

but she won the oscar for the first film for her score and that was an excellent score i listened to it from time to time uh i have it on my playlist but this go around it was pretty weak it was it was really weak to

say this is a quote unquote musical the score didn't work for me but uh like i said overall i'm giving it the same grade that i gave in my non-spoiler i give it an a minus i think it's you

a well-made man film and i'm giving it a minus because of the effort

uh the execution not so much but the effort was great i think it was a great effort um some of the elements that i mentioned that were unfortunate they

weren't bad decisions the things that i mentioned that was kind of bleh they weren't bad decisions they were just executed wrong if it makes any sense if i'm making sense to y'all maybe

I'm going crazy in my head too,

but it just,

it wasn't enough for me to say,

oh,

this movie was bad,

but that's just me.

That's just me,

obviously.

It's just me,

but

I said all that to say this.

I'm standing on my word.

What I said,

I liked the film.

I thought it was a great film.

Uh,

it's not better than the first film by no stretch.

It really did take a dip in quality,

but the first film is like to the moon.

So it was going to be a tall task to reach those heights.

And hence,

I wasn't expecting to reach those heights with it.

That's why I was not shocked by it.

And my expectations were kind of low going into it.

So what I got,

I actually enjoyed.

Joker,

holy ado,

gets an A-.

But that's my opinion.

That's just me.

I would love to know yours.

And honestly,

like I say on every review,

it's all subjective.

There's no wrong answer.

If you liked it,

that's good.

If you didn't like it,

that's good.

There's nothing wrong with that.

There are a lot of things that I like that my wife hates.

You know,

it's movies and TV shows.

that she does not want to watch and that i'm i you know i would break the remote on the tv trying to hurry up and get to it and it's vice versa there are things she watch i utterly refuse to watch but

that's her that's her jam just like stuff is my jam uh obviously jokey folia do is not everybody's jam and that's okay my only thing is you

uh the reason for this episode the reason that we have in this discussion is man is so much hate i mean venomous hate for this film and i just don't know why if you didn't like the movie you

just didn't like the movie i mean it's it's okay it's okay but i want to know what your thoughts were did you like jokey foley i do uh did you you

hate it you just straight up hate it email the show kbradiopodcast at gmail.com you can also search for the show on all social media platforms just search for the kb radio network also ladies and gentlemen don't forget about the kb radio network channel on youtube subscribe and

like this video if you don't mind also don't forget about the five stars the reviews and sharing this show if you're listening on apple podcast spotify iheart radio wherever you are

currently listening to movie goodness here on the KB radio network.

Everybody.

Thank you for joining me for this little dive into Jokey Folia.

Do the most diverse of it.

Well,

it ain't diverse.

The most hated film of 2024.

And I am not in that camp.

You can never,

you will never,

you can say a lot of things about me,

which I'm pretty sure you do.

But it's one thing you cannot say about Kevin Reed.

I do not roll with the crowd.

you know,

if we all in the greens,

we all in the greens.

But if everybody feel one way and I feel completely different,

I'm going to let you know that I feel completely different.

I don't join the crowd.

And this time I'm definitely standing on the island by myself,

but it's all good.

I'm still happy.

I hope you are too.

Maybe not Joker happy,

but I'm happy.

But everybody,

thank you for joining me for this episode of Movie Goodness.

Can't wait to speak to you on the next go around.

Want you all to know that I love you.

Continue to love everyone.

And until we speak again,

you all be blessed.

Joker: Folie a Deux (2024) Spoiler Discussion

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